Linda mentioned this, and while I considered posting about it, I wasn't sure. Honestly, part of me didn't want to touch this subject which is why most conservatives probably stayed away from it. The only conservative talk show host that I know touched on it was Michael Savage, though others might have commented on this subject. I had another post in my head a few days ago, but since my internet was down for a few days, I never did post on it. Anyway, I don't have anything else, so I'll post on this.
Secular Commentary:
In California, where liberalism is alive and well, the supreme court overturned a ballot initiative which defined marriage as between a man and a woman. This initiative had been passed by 61%. Not 51-49, but 61-39 a fairly large margin, especially in a liberal state like California. The voters of California said resoundingly that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and I wholeheartedly agree. Now before the leftists label me a cold-hearted hate-monger, let me say that I do believe that in the United States, the free nation that it is, there should be allowances made that provide for EQUAL protection under the law. Meaning that there should be recognition of relationships as a legal contract between two individuals if they so choose. Two men or two women who have committed themselves to each other for life should be allowed to give powers of attorney, medical decisions, life insurance etc. to each other. Every American should have the freedom to designate another person of their choosing as their 'significant other'. However, having civil unions is not the same as marriage. I truly believe that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman.
Religious Commentary:
There is significant religious and historical precedent for marriage being a union between a man and a woman. I don't know of any major world religion which would sanction marriage between two persons of the same sex. It could be argued that there are 'Christian' churches which are doing this, but they are spitting on God if they are sanctioning these 'marriages' and claiming to be 'Christian'. If they claim to follow the bible, they need to rip out a few scriptures; Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and probably others that I can't think of right now.
A big deal was made about a US soldier shooting a Koran recently. It made me think of something that I will eventually use as an illustration for a bible study one day. My wife told me about a campus bible talk she attended where the brother leading the talk started ripping pages out of one of his older bibles. Some people were aghast, but really if you are not following the bible, it is just another book, like the Koran, or Aesop's Fables, you might as well rip out the pages you don't like. It has no meaning if you don't put it into practice. When 'Christians' sanction marriage that is in direct opposition to the bible, they are saying that the bible is not the Word of God, but merely a book with 'some good principles'. I believe that the bible is the inspired Word of God (2 Tim 3:16) which is living and active. (Hebrews 4:12) This being the case, I have to say that as a Christian, I am against same-sex marriage. This is not in a holier-than-thou sense because I recognize that I am a sinner. Homosexuality is not a sin I struggle with, but I do struggle with other sins. As a sinner, I have compassion on others who are in sin and instead of passing judgment as most Christians do, (even those I'd call real Christians) I'd like to say to those who struggle with the sin of homosexuality; "Let me show you God's way, let me help you to repent."
Getting back to the secular part of my post, I'd say that activist judges need to be stopped and Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to be recalled the way Gray Davis was. The 'Governator' has done a worse job managing the state of California (if that is possible) and has driven it further to the left. Now the 'Republican appointed' Supreme Court has told the citizens of California, 'Screw You! We'll do what we want (and what the far-left extremists tell us to do). Activist judges are the reason for this ruling, for Roe v. Wade, for rulings against illegal immigration etc. The courts are destroying America, and have overstepped their mandate as outlined in the Constitution. But then again, the Legislative and Executive branches have as well. Maybe someday we'll get our country back.
54 comments:
Good post, Nestor! I'm on board. I don't think most gays really care if you call it "marriage", I think they just want what comes with it...the designated next of kin, survivorship, insurance, hospital vistition, etc. Some may be bent on the term itself, but I would guess that most aren't.
It's tricky cuz marriage is a state license and more often than not, a religious deal as well. I wonder if they shouldn't be seperate. Get married thru your state, then if you want to be married "in the eyes of God", do so in your church. Then again, that doesn't solve the problem of using the term "marriage", does it? That doesn't work.
I'm fine w/ keepin "marriage" between guys and dolls, as it seems to mean a lot to a lot of people, but I'd like to see those for whom that is not an option, get their privledges as well.
Call it a "union" and call it a day.
Nestor, you lose when you claim that the only other person talking about your garbage, is Michael Weiner. The guys a total loser.
You need to find real people to listen to, IMHO.
This issue seems like a no brainer. Marraige is for people of the opposite sex. If others (same sex couples, friends, siblings, whoever) want to enter into a contract for the reasons you listed (power of atty, ect) so be it.
But (for these liberal courts and their agenda driven backers) the issue isn't about equality. The "gay" lobby is dead set on gettn everyone else to "admit" that their (the gays) lifestlye is ok. The reason is that homosexuals feel an unspoken guilt for their behavior. Same sex "sex" defies all moral and natural laws. It is in fact, unnatural. Their (and probably unknown to themselves) need is to get others to say it's ok to eleviate their own feelings of guilt.
Yeah, guilt. That must be it. ;) Interesting philosophy...I hope you're (and I think you are) wrong about that. I think if they do feel guilty it's cuz the general pop has made em feel that way. For reasons that are obvious.
I think of it this way...if we woke up tomorrow, and the world in this regard flip flopped, and the "norm" was to be w/ those of the same sex, and we had our current feelings about people of the opposite, how would we feel about it? I'd have to ignore the "sin" problem and do my thing anyway.
Actually that's a question for you guys. You say we all sin, and the way to eternal life is to be saved, etc. So can gays achieve eternal life if they're still sinning, ie. doin people of the same sex, if everything else they're doin is right? Curious.
Oh, and please have a lovely day, y'all.
Made to feel that way...born that way..
Interestn how the homosexual community likes to "blame" others for their choice.
Interstn question about whether or not one sin loses your salvation. I suppose if we were judged by the Law it would. But (and I KNOW we've been down this route many times), we are no longer under the Law (the Law shows us what sin is). Those who have truly surrendered to Christ will not participate in that kinda behavior; anymore than an adulterer or thief or whatever will continue in their sins.
And, you only have to look at the percentages of drug use/suicide rates/general disfunction of the gay community to see their guilt play out. Does this mean gay people are bad. Well yeah, we're all inherently (wow, I spelled that correctly) bad; it's only through Christ that we overcome the sins of the flesh.
And w/ that, YOU have a good day as well.
Shalom.
No they can't Linda, not if they are acting on it. They need to repent of the behavior, even if the attraction never goes away. The problem with your point is this: once we follow Christ, we don't sin intentionally. We do sin, yes, but we don't go sinning intentionally. If we sin intentionally, we are crucifying Jesus all over again. I know that stealing is wrong and is sinful, so I don't steal. The harder sins to repent of are 'sins of the heart'. Selfishness, Pride, (the bad kind of pride) anger, lust etc. I'm not going to cheat on my wife, but I may occasionally look a little longer than I should. (Basically if I think I might have an attraction when seeing someone out of the corner of my eye, I just don't look at all) But the goal is life without sin, which is impossible for man, but is still the goal. The heart sins are unavoidable though, but we need to make every effort to cut them out.
I don't claim to know what is in the heart of a gay person. I do know that acting on an attraction to someone of the same sex is sin and it is against God's plan of one man, one woman joined together to become one flesh. I do think for some people, they are just not attracted to the opposite sex. If they have no attraction to the opposite sex then they need to not act on their same sex attraction to avoid sinning. Paul talks about it being better for people to not marry. I think this would be a case for someone to remain celibate for life. That may sound cruel and uncompassionate, but it is not my place to judge God's plan, it is my place to obey. I'd like to get rid of this scripture, but it is not my place to judge God's plan, but to obey. "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:27-28)
I think that Christians need to have more compassion towards gays, but not excuse the behavior, which is clearly in contrast to God, and is sin.
Stan,
Stop cherrypicking stuff from my posts and read the whole thing please.
Me,
>The only conservative talk show host that I know touched on it was Michael Savage, though others might have commented on this subject.
I didn't say he was the only one, I said he was the only one I heard. I don't have all day to listen to talk radio, though I listen to a number of hosts throughout the day, but it may be only 15 minutes here or there.
Ok, I get the sin thing now.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on the choice thing, tho. Could you choose to like guys if you were supposed to?
There's a kid down the street, 5th grader...I'd put money that he'll be gay when he hits puberty (or whenever kids get "those feelings" these days.) The boy I played with every day in 1st grade? Really effeminate little boy...he's 40 and not married. Now I'm not certain, but I'd bet on that one, too. My masculine softball player (girl)friend in highschool who now lives out east w/ her girlfriend? I don't think she was choosing what felt normal to her. I don't remember making the choice...I think you just dig who you dig.
I'll add an addendum to my last post... one of my best friends is gay, and we've talked about how he came to be gay. He doesn't feel he ever made a conscious decision. He and his friends also think it is probably a nature AND nurture thing. Sometimes things happen when you're young that influence how you turn out. Not blame, just explanation. I guess I just trust that that's his truth, and that he has better insight into that community than I do.
On a lighter note, it's FREEZING here!! I'm tryin not to turn on the heat!
In fairness, I'd like to add that I'm speaking in huge generalities here. Everyone's different, and I suppose there must be some that choose. Although I'll admit, I don't really get that unless you like both, in which case you're born that way. Ha ha.
So a man that abuses his wife gets a pass 'cause he was beatn as a child? I can jump in the sack w/ whatever chick I see, 'cause I'm born that way? I might shoplift because I was exposed to theivery while grownin up (no choice a mine, too much influence at an early age; it's in the genes)?
I'm sorry, but the "I was born that way" excuse might explain the temptation to do wrong; but it does not excuse it.
It's this line a thinkn that brought us (in some states so far) condom distribution in schools (because they're all just gonna do it anyway).
Life IS black and white.
Whatever happened to accountability?
Wow, thought I'd get ya (Lin) riled up w/ that last comment, but nothin but silence. 'Course, you do have a life.
22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:22-23
This is an interesting subject for me since some of the most important people in my life are gay. I think it is very important to separate the sin from the person, meaning, hate the sin love the person. The scripture above, to me, describes that it doesn't matter which sin or how much I still fall short of the glory of God. I think we can get very self rightgeous in passing judgement on someone else without looking at ourselves. I am very pridefull and at times very selfish but I'm not gay, does that make me a better person? I don't think so.
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
2 Timothy 3:1-3
Lots of the things named above apply to me but I'm not gay, does that make me better? I don't think so. I love my gay friends but I don't like what they do, yet they are some of the most selfless people I know. When I meet someone or introduce a friend I don't idetify them by their sin. I would never say "Hey, meet my fried Jon and he fornicates for fun" I would never say to my self "I think I'll call Lisa the money worshiper to see how she is doing". In the same way I don't identify people by their sexuality. I disagree with it, I know what the bible says about it. We may discuss it when appropiate and I pray for them.
2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 7:2
This particular scripture put me in my place every time. I get real forgiving when I read this. When judgement day comes around I want to make sure I treated everyone the same way I want God to treat me. (yes the cross is my ultimate motivation but this gets me going when I loose focus OK).
Oh, no I don't believe in gay marriage. Unions yes, marriage no.
Ok, I'm still laughn at the Jon the fornicator thing, very funny.
I hear ya on the not judging others thing (certainly I do at times, much as I try not to). But, you hafta seperate judgn others from makin a judgement about a particular thing (which you may be doin here).
I take it from your comments that you agree that a gay person is makin a choice (as to doin the gay thing).
Carmen,
Do you think that supportn "gay unions" gives validity to bein gay?
I oppose gay unions, I do however support a contractual union based on two people (be they gay, friends, relatives, or just two people that want to share responibilities). Why must the "gay" moniker be attached?
Equal rights is equal rights. If ya'll don't believe in gay marriage, you hate America (and all it stands for.)
I do very much believe that it is a choice. Scientifically speaking we can show that people of alcoholic families are more likely to be alcoholic themselves but that doesn't make it right. I don't know that any of my friends chose who they were atracted to but it is their choice to act on it. There are documented cases of animals in nature performing homosexual behaviors and in biopsies (is that right?) of gays some glands are bigger than average. Is it genetic? I don't know I just know that God said don't do it. He knows our inner struggles and he will se us through it.
I think we like in a very feelings based society were we are constantly intructed to follow our feelings. The thing we forget is that our feelings are not truth "and the truth shall set you free", it sound corney but we can't just follow every emotion just because it feels good. I think that is why so many people are so unhappy, there are greater rewards in doing the right thing that just doing what you feel.
Unions, I really don't get why they have to be "Gay unions". Like you said if two people want that legal attachment I think it's great but why does it have to be specifically gay. Anyway, I think the whole process for this stuff is full of crap. How is it that such a small percentage of the american population have soooooo much influence over the country? If you ask me somebodies (?) wallet is getting rubbed the right way.
Like I told you before I hate politics for this very reason. I would dare to say that most politicians and judges are bought and are working for someone other than the people they represent. That is how the vote of the people gets overturned. I think that unless we come together as a people and take the gov't back $$$ are going to continue to rule the U.S.
Um, this is a very casual subject for me.
Stan you are so charming!!!
Democracy is a gov't for the people by the people. That is what this country was founded on. The people don't always want what you would call equal rights but it should be the pepoles choice never the less.
I believe Stan may be constipated.
More roughage Stan,,more roughage.
Stan,
If you don't like George Bush you hate America. ;)
I think we pretty much agree. Unfortunately some (STAN!) think that disagreement w/ liberal principles (ie full support for gay marraige) is bigotry.
And I second your thoughts on politicians selln out. "What do we want..TERM LIMITS!..When do we want em..NOW!"
And what you said about "feelings". I'm sooo sicka this too. "Discover the real you...reach your inner child...what's truth for you may not be for someone else"...AHHH!
OK, I've fully vented. Best to Nest and kiddos..gn.
Hey Nest, thought you were maybe workin.
Just a thought, but S, me and youngest are gonna go fishn Memorial Day (big kids are gonna be in H-town). If you guys have no plans your certainly invited. Was thinkin Blanco area.
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)
I think this scripture sums up how I feel about this whole issue, and I think Reck alluded to it as well. A Christian has to decide for him/herself what is right and Godly. There is a Judge for sin and it's not me. I do however have to decide what is right for myself and my household. I can not tolerate sin in my life or in my home. If I do, I am bringing judgment on myself. But I also do not know what is in the heart of others. Homosexuality could possibly be the 'thorn in the flesh' for those individuals who are truly gay. However, this is not an excuse for them to act on their temptations any more than it would be OK for me to cheat on my wife, steal or intentionally commit any sin. I think we need to show compassion, because we all struggle with sin because Satan is constantly trying to accuse us, yet a Christian must stand firm in the Word of God.
Reck,
If its on Memorial Day, that would be great. I work that weekend, but I'm off on Memorial Day. Blanco area sounds cool. I've been through there a few times on the way to a park by 'The Home of Liberal Baines Johnson' My friend got a speeding ticket in Blanco right where the speed limit goes 70, 55, 40 within a 1/4 mile. He missed the 55 sign, and there was a cop at some grocery store. (Which surprisingly was a store other than HEB...I think)
Me -
>> Equal rights is equal rights. If ya'll don't believe in gay marriage, you hate America (and all it stands for.)
Reck -
> I think we pretty much agree. ...
Linda, congrats on your teams. I know the Pistons won, and the Blues won as well right. ;)
Mornin all!
R,
I don't think you can compare sexual orientation to behaviors. I know the sex itself is a choice, but I'm talking about one's sexual orientation.
I think it might be easier for those who belive it's a sin, to also believe the orientation is a choice. You don't want them to act on their feelings? That's fine. But I can't personally expect someone to a have a relationship with the palm of their hand for 60 years in hopes that they'll be rewarded for it in some sort of afterlife.
Yes, the Blues won last night! ;) Stanley Cup here we come!!! Pistons have been waiting for the other series to end so we can play the winner. I believe they wrapped that up last night, but I didn't hear who won.
God mornin!
Calln a choice to have sex w/ someone "sexual orientation" reminds me of when Al Gore called tax cuts a "risky tax scheme".
And yeah, congrats on your Pistons. What is this, like 5 or 6 Eastern Conf Finals in a row?
And of course, go Wings! My favorite hockey..type..team.
Oh jeez...just noticed I used the word "easier" again. (ducking for cover...) Substitute it for prudent.
Hey Reck, if you have some time, could you give me the abridged version of your queso instructions? I spent some time yesterday trying to find that post of yours here at Nestor's, but I couldn't find it. Tryin it again this weekend. (I ALMOST bought Mexican sausage to try in it, but upon inspection, it sorta creeped me out.)
I'm not calling someone's choice to have sex with someone, sexual orientation. They're 2 seperate things. My sexual orientation is toward men. Do I have to have sex with them? Nope. But it would suck if I couldn't as we are consenting adults. No one has to act on their feelings. I just don't see the harm in it the way you do.
Stan,
Doc's comments are gone on everyone's blog. People called the moderator on him and you won't find his comments anywhere. And he erased his own blog. Don't think you'll find him again.
Ok, think we pretty much know how the other one stands on this; and we probably agree more than we disagree actually. Ie..no gay marraige, people have sex outta choice, Reck's usually right, ect..ect.
Queso ala Reck:
First, you must select the choicest block of Velvetta cheese you can find.
Next, cube 3/4 and delicately place into pot set on med high. Stir almost continuesly as cheese melts, adding small (stress small) amounts of succulent milk as needed.
Open two cans of (blue labeled, has cilantro and lime) ro-tel drain about half of juice from each can before adding to cheese (or queso becomes to runny). Note: ro-tel is to be added before cheese is completely melted. Now savory sausage can be added if you choose (cooked 1st, obviously). Stir almost continuesly throughout.
Enjoy.
Austin bound...adios amigos!
Ugh...you're incorrigible. ;) I'll let you have the last word per usual. What can I say...I'm a giver.
Thanks for the recipe. I think you embellish the more you repeat it. The milk has to be succulent now? lol. I'm temped to ask you a few more times, just to see what I get.
Linda,
I believe that for most gays, they are just attracted to people of the same sex. I think many of them have wanted to be attracted to the opposite sex, but it's just not there. I don't think it is a sin to be attracted to a person of the same sex, I believe that is beyond the control of most gays. I truly don't know for sure, because I can't see in their heart. That is truly between the individual and God.
However, lust is a sin, sex outside of marriage is a sin and sex with someone of the same sex (which is also outside of marriage) is a sin. These are not my rules, but God's rules. It may seem unfair, but it is not my place to question God. Job did, and didn't get an answer other than, (paraphrasing here) 'I am God, who are you? It's your place to obey my commands, and I'll worry about the rest'. When I wonder why God does things a certain way, I like to go to Job chapters 38-41.
I also like 1 Corinthians 1:20-25 (I'm sure I've posted this a number of times)
"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."
I don't always understand God's logic, but I don't have to. If I follow God's commands and trust in Him, He will work it out. I can't see the big picture, but God can. If I only think about myself and do what I want to do, I will ruin the big picture. You have kids Linda, and you know how they say, 'It's not fair' or 'Why, Why, Why?'. You know the big picture for them, but they don't see it. You make them do things they don't like for their own good, even if they don't think so. But unlike you, (and me, and any human) God doesn't make mistakes. He knows exactly what we need to have an opportunity to find Him.
"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us." (Acts 17:26-27)
I understand all that you said, but (you knew there'd be a but), not everyone believes all that. It's up to each person to believe what they believe, so I know you think it's the truth, but it may not be.
And asking someone to be celibate for their entire lives is plenty to ask of someone who may or may not believe that it's a sin. So as it's not our place to judge, why can't we let them be? We're not sinning, they are. It's on them. If they don't live in a way that will reward them w/ eternal life, it's their decision and their issue.
Very good points L. It is on them.
The great hope, however, is that God provides them a way out.
Hi Reck...make sure you check your blog at TH tnite if you're experiencing some writer's block. Think I can help you out...
L,
You were definately on a roll w/ that list a prospective topics. Still giggln. I was postn a comment to you there 'bout an hour ago, but had a phone call and was interupted. Just posted it.
Too bad for Pistons tonite. Hopefully, da Wings will do better in their hockey match...contest..uh...rink thingy. Is it rink or ring. Ring sounds better.
Then "ring" it is.
Yeah well, had a feeling the boys weren't gonna win early on. Heard Boston had an 8 game at home roll going. There's time.
Thought you might need some suggestions at your blog..:)
I'm post #44...and it's 44 degrees outside.
(That could possibly been the most pointless thing I've ever bothered to type.)
Well this isn't post 92, but that's how hot it's supposed to get today. 92 isn't bad since it was 97 yesterday.
Actually felt way hotter today in Austin than yesterday; due to the humidity.
Don't know how you guys do it. Topped out in the low 50's tday. We're below average right now. (Don't even think about it.)
Ok, finally posted a new Post at Reck's. It was inspired by this post a Nest's.
gn folks!
Nite Lin.
One thing (and my ribs actually hurt from laughn). S and oldest daughter were watchn DVR'd Amer Idol and Seacrest? says (right at the end ) "and this years American Idol winner is.." then DVR stopped (as it will when tapen things). I cannot describe the look on their faces, classic.
Oh that's terrible! I bet it was because it was live and it went long. Oh, what a riot. (I'm so glad the rocker dude won.)
Their jaws actually dropped. S was lookin online last nite, tryn to find the last minutes of nthe show, and stumbled across an Idol blog (of all things). Apparently ALOTTA people DVR'd it and were quite upset.
I bet. Does your DVR say "This show is live, would you like to add minutes to the recording time?" That's helpful..let's you add time in increments of 5 minutes up to an hour I think, just in case. I only watched the last five minutes to see who won.
That's classic. I bet they did that on purpose so that you don't DVR the show next year. If you're not watching live they can't advertise cheap junk made in China.
Post a Comment