*SPOILER ALERT* If you haven't read "The Magician's Nephew", and intend to, you may not want to read this post.
"He thinks great folly, child,......But I cannot tell that to this old sinner, and I cannot comfort him either; he has made himself unable to hear my voice. If I spoke to him, he would hear only growlings and rumblings. Oh Adam's sons, how cleverly you defend yourselves against all that might do you good!"
-Aslan the Lion; (representing The Lion of Judah) from "The Magician's Nephew", by C.S. Lewis
"Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:25-29)
If you don't believe, is it because you are refusing to listen? He wants you to hear, but is your heart hardened? All who believe can have redemption. Even Digory, who brought evil with him into Narnia was redeemed because he was still humble enough to listen to the lion. His uncle was hard-hearted, and didn't hear the voice of the Lion, but only mutterings and growls. When God is talking to you, can you hear his voice?
46 comments:
Please actually prove the (supposed) existence.
I'm all ears!
It's obvious, but you can't hear His voice Stan (Uncle Andrew) Rosenthal.
Maybe the voice that you're actually hearing in your head, is your own voice? How many voices to you have going on in your head anyway?
'Mornin Nest,
Obviously I enjoyed this post. What better way to start the day than words from our Savior and mirror dialoge from the great C.S. Lewis. Shame Stan can only hear the growls and roars; what a great witness he could be if he ever saw the Light.
That picture of Aslan would make an awsome paint by number kit!
I know I'm deep, but try and stay with me.
You have a very cute family, Nestor!
Nest,
Nice to see you married up.
Well,
Some guys get lucky I guess. :)
Nestor,
Judging by your talk of that pizzaria in SA (what's the name again?) I assume you're not a vegetarian too. Stuffed pork chops for dinner here tonight. Mmmm!
Do have some questions c/o diet tho that I'd like ask your wife on her blog if that's ok.
Like, "why do you have 'green' and 'smoothie' in the same sentence?" or "why are you punishing yourself this way?" or "what about bacon?" ;) Let her loose on Reck, I wanna see him give up stuffed pork chops and cowboy casserole for his NY resolution!!
So Nestor, Y did you change your 'Who Nestor'd Vote For' poll? ;-)
I changed who I'd vote for because its fluid right now. Huck is concerning me more and more about the border and crime fighting. I still think Ron Paul is crazy, but now I think he is better than Hillary or Obama. Even though I think the lazy Fred stuff is true, I like his message, hence the bump up. If you want that to stay concrete, it will have to wait until after the nominees are picked and then it won't move.
My wife hasn't been a vegetarian forever. She will probably still eat turkey on Thanksgiving and meat on rare special occasions, but for the most part, not so much. I am not a vegan, but I eat way less meat than I used to. Especially now that school is out. I am home way more, so I eat at home way more, and we don't keep much meat in the house. We probably eat meat a few times a week, but my wife has recently cut it out totally. But if you want to ask her questions go ahead.
Linda, LOL!
What's a "smoothie" ;)
Ah, you anticipated the bacon question.
Hey Nest,
The day I give up meat it'll be a cold day in...well...Texas.
Seriously tho, have some questions c/o diet, as in what are some healthier things to eat, not so much loss wieght kinda stuff...altho a few pounds wouldn't kill me.
I'm with you Wreck. Give me meat, "or" give me death. Or is that "and" ...
Unable to comment on my blog this evening.(Can read comments tho)
Linda,
Really liked hearn about you & your Dad in DC.
Reck,
I can't seem to get to your blog, but I did want to follow up my comment on baptism. Again, I didn't want to come off harsh, and if I did, I'm sorry, it's the yankee side.
Anyway the three scriptures that come to mind are; 1Peter3:21, Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16.
1 Peter 3:18-22
"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU ALSO—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him." (Emphasis mine)
Acts 2:37-39
"When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." (Emphasis mine)
Acts 22:14-16
"Then he said: 'The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, BE BAPTIZED AND WASH YOUR SINS AWAY, calling on his name." (Emphasis mine)
I guess thing thing here is that while important, accepting Christ is not what saves you, it gets you down the road to salvation, but true salvation comes at baptism. Not just getting down and getting wet mind you. Repentance and a changed heart must be first, but your sins are actually washed away in the waters of baptism.
I'm about ready to go off on Townhall right now. I just wrote a really long (and nice) post and I can't get it thru! arg. Maybe it'll post, but I can't tell. Anyone else have pblms?
I did the no red meat thing for awhile...wasn't that hard, but then it turned into..."why?" Admitedly, most of my "ground beef" recipes are really ground turkey. And my kids do love the Boca burger!
Aw, I'm glad you got it. Didn't think I could repeat that. :)
I've been having the TH access problems recently, more problems reading than posting though. But yes, knowing that I've gotten the comment out has been a problem for me too, Linda! I do think having your blog on your own server would probably cure that problem, Reck.
Mornin.
Ok...game on.
We are not saved by a ritual.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is a gift from God..." Eph 2:8
Verse 21 of 1 Peter chp 3 "and this water SYMBOLIZES (my emphasis added) baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Acts 1:5 "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Matt 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentence. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire." Are we then to be literally baptized w/ fire as well? No, fire symbolizes judgement.
In the OT, baptism was a form of repentence, or non-Jews who became followers of the One True God (in essence became Jews) were baptized w/ water. But not so after the coming of the Messiah. "All authority has been given to Me. Therefore go and make desciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matt 28 18-19 see Luke 3:11 as well.
And 1 Cor 12:13 "For we are all baptized by one Spirit, into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given one Spirit to drink."
Emmersion in water is a symbolic act that is an outward statement of faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
Reck,
First let me say that I like and respect you very much. While we disagree, I want to make sure that this does not create a division. However, I think we differ in a few areas and truthfully only one significant one that I can see.
You pointed out a couple of things I agree with; we are saved by grace. For without God's grace our sins could not be washed away. However, God's grace is poured out at baptism. (I'll talk about the two baptisms in a minute) As far as your statement about fire being a symbol, I think your point is correct, and we are not literally baptized with fire, but it does allude to a second baptism. Fire is used throughout the bible as a symbol of removing impurities. This was done with metals (still is I guess), where you put the metal in fire, and the impurites come out. In much the same way, the second baptism (for the forgiveness of sins) removes our impurities; sin.
It's funny that we used the same scripture and highlighted different parts. The symbolism that Peter spoke of was the scriptures before that talked of the great flood. The waters of the great flood symbolize baptism. In the way that the great flood washed away the sins of the world, baptism washes away the sins of the new Christian.
The other two main scriptures you used (Acts 1 and Matthew 3)referred to John's baptism; which you correctly state is a baptism of repentance. John's baptism was not for the washing away of sins.
Acts 19:4-7
"Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied."
You see, the bible refers to TWO baptisms. A baptism of repentance (John's baptism) and a baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I think we agree that you are not saved by works, but; "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." (James 2:18)
So deeds or works don't save you, but they are a proof of faith. Apollos, even though he taught accurately about Jesus, he was not saved. He did not have the Holy Spirit, because his baptism was wrong. It took Paul baptizing him for the forgiveness of sins for him to be saved. Baptism for the forgiveness of sins is what washes your sins away, and is what gives the gift of the Holy Spirit.
In the case of Apollos, he loved God and was sold out for the mission of Christ, but he didn't have all of the knowledge that he needed. I think many people today are in the same boat. They go to church and live their lives according to the bible, but because this important part of doctrine is taught improperly, many people are like Apollos before he met Paul.
Sorry I got lengthy, but I wanted to be clear without being blunt, hopefully I came off that way.
Love in Christ,
Nestor
Nester,
Please don't take what I said wrong. When we have our tues nite Bible studies, I'm usually the one challegn others; but not meant in a condescendn or critical way. I think that debate is healthy. And I certainly do respect you and your views, alot.
Upon my salvation (that night in my kitchen) the Holy Spirit came upon me, I can't deny it. Now, that being said, I was previously baptized (in HS, went to church for a couple a weeeks, but that was it) and did experience something then. Was that the Holy Spirit, possibly; I certainly didn't live my life as a Christian in any way then (there was no good fruit). Last Jan. my life changed from the moment I accepted Him (as evidenced by the fruit I now produce, due only to the Spirit). So I am open to your argument.
Your Brother in Christ,
Reck
Wow, you've really got me readn on this issue now.
Acts 10 44-47
"While Peter was speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, Can anyone keep these people from being baptised with water"
They recieved the Holy Spirit prior to baptism w/ water.
There's more that I want to talk w/ you about this but it's WAY past my bed time. Look forward to discussn this more manana.
Shalom.
Reck,
I obviously don't know what it felt like for you. I do know what it was like for me. After my second bible study, I realized that I was not right with God and I needed to repent. I did start to repent at this time. Over the next two to three months I was making changes (of course I still am, but these were very obvious changes) as I continued to study and learn more and more about God and Jesus. At the end of this time, May 4th 2004, I was asked If I believed that Jesus was the Son of God who came down from heaven and died for my sins. I said yes (obviously). I then was asked what my good confession was. At which point I professed that 'Jesus is Lord!' I was then baptized, and then I baptized my wife. (she made the same confessions of course)
What happened next was pretty amazing. The clouds didn't part, (I don't think there were clouds anyway) but I felt at peace. TOTAL PEACE. I don't really know how to explain it, but I don't think anything could have ruined my evening. You probably could have said, 'Hey Nestor, your house just burned down!' and I probably would have said, 'that's too bad, I guess we'll have to get a new one.' When I say this, I'm not exaggerating.
I don't know what it felt like for you in that kitchen, but knowing that my sins and the eternal death that came with them was just washed away gave me a peace that is unparalled for me to this day. The closest I can think of (which is really no comparison) was about a week before I left Germany. I was at the top of the Zugspitz, (probably spelled that wrong) the tallest mountain in Germany. I looked down and the clouds had begun to part and the sun was coming out. (German winter = no sun) I could see the mountains below, and even clouds below and it was one of the most beautiful things I can remember seeing. I stayed at the top for a long time because I really wanted to take it in. It was really incredible, but truthfully not even close to the night of May 4, 2004.
I really hope this is what it was that you felt. Well I really need to sleep now. GNA!
Probably should add next two verses to qualify my point.
Acts 10:2nd half of 47-48
"They have recieved the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."
I can tell you what I felt there in my kitchen that night. Total forgiveness of my sins. The wieght that I had carried for what seems like forever was gone, in an instant.
GN
Mathew 25 (at least I think I got that number correct)
Very similar. Since being "born again" I don't really worry about anything. All the pressure of this world is gone, He took it. Total peace, as you put it, is a good desription of what I felt then and still do.
Regarding 1Peter 3:21
"..and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also" refers to the baptism of salvation through Christ's blood. Ro 6:3-4 "Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Baptism is symbolic.
1 Cor 10:2 "They were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." And Gal 3:26-27 " You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." This refers to OT Jews joining w/ Moses and NT Christians joining w/ Christ; joining being to be in union w/.
As far as the flood bringn salvation (as in baptism); wasn't it the Ark that saved them; Noah's faith in God to build and enter the Ark?
The Gospel saves us.
1 Cor 15:2 "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
What is the Gospel?
1 Cor 15:3-4 "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day accordind to the Scriptures"
What did Paul say?
1 Cor 1:17 "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel-not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power."
I look forward to your comments regardn this. This "debate" that were havn is a debate between Brothers in Christ and only intended that way (not a I'm right and your wrong or vice versa); Here's hopen we both learn from this discussion.
Reck,
It will take awhile to address all of your questions. Honestly, it would probably be best to meet you with some brothers who have been around (the church) a lot longer than I have. If you live in THC, I'm not sure exactly what part, are you north or northwest? Maybe one day after the new year we could hang out at a starbucks (or wherever) with one or two other brothers who are wiser and more knowledgeable and try to address your questions. I will also do that here (to the best of my ability)
Reck,
I would say that the passage in Romans 6:2-4 is not symbolic. At baptism you actually DO participate in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. You die to your life of sin, then you are buried in the water, and come out of the water with a new life.
Colossians 2:11-12
"In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
There are symbols associated with baptism, but the symbols are in the old testament. Baptism is not a symbol but the fulfillment of the OT symbols.
The flood buried the entire earth, (at the very least the known earth) (symbolic of sin being washed away)and through God's power, Noah and his family were saved.
When Israel crossed through the Red Sea, they were leaving their life of slavery (symbolic of sin) to a new life of obedience to God. Their Egyptian enslavers were literally washed away, as sin is washed away in baptism. When they crossed through the Red Sea, they were no longer slaves, as when we come out of the water, sin no longer has a hold on us (if we don't fall back into it).
You see there are symbols of what is to come throughout the Old Testament that are a shadow of what was to come in the New Testament. What comes in the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament's symbols and prophecies. There are many OT symbols of Jesus, yet none of them are actually Jesus. You could not say however that Jesus is a symbol.
You made me do some research on the point you made about Acts 10, and I want to properly address this point. I will do more research and get to it later. Have a wonderful day.
Back to it.
You said that, "There are symbols associated w/ baptism, but symbols are in OT. Baptism is not a symbol, but fullfilment of OT prophesy." And I certainly agree w/ you that Christ is not symbolic.
I would agree (w/ your baptism point above) in the context of covenants. The OT and NT are covenants (which you know), in fact, the Bible is a covenant document.
The Eternal Covenant is between the Father and the Son(from the beginning). God gives to Jesus those that He choose. Heb 13:20 "May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that Great Shepard of the sheep."
I'm gettn to a point here c/o NT baptism as it relates to OT circumsision but I'm outta time. I'll continue later.
Nest,
The more I get into this the more I'm inclined to agree that this probably isn't the forum to discuss this like we'd like. Plus, there's much more I need to learn regardn this. Still open to your thoughts on this subject tho.
Tell your wife that I bought a couple a stinkn grapefriuts for breakfast tomorrow morning. Gonna miss my bacon (altho sundays..I'm havn bacon).
God bless.
I think it probably would be good to get together to talk about this. (It'd be cool to get together anyway even if we didn't talk about this) What do you think? New Braunfels maybe? Or maybe you live further north than I'm guessing.
New Braunfels would work for me, probably sometime after the first of the year.
Can I come? Obviously, I won't stay, I'll just get a skinny tall Chai Tea Latte extra hot, give ya'll a big hug and go sight seeing.
Starbucks it is!
Nest,
Was just postn to Linda c/o lights and wanted to suggest to yall (if you haven't already gone) to take the family to see Santa's Ranch. It's like 20 bucks per car load. Near you guys on I35, south of San Marcos. Your kids will freak, it's awesome.
Ya'll may as well meet in Greune.
Hey, if Linda can make it to the meet and greet in New Braunfels from Michigan, so can I from Houston. Texas isn't *THAT* large. I take that last sentence back ...
I know the where (Starbucks, is there only 1 in NB?), when's the when?
I think there is only one in NB. Kind of why I picked it, along with guessing Reck lives NW of SA. I live E of Austin so it could be close to half-way depending on where in the Hill Country Reck lives. I don't know what date yet, but sometime in January, after Christmas and before school starts back up for me. I just got my work schedule for next month tonight (they were way late with it) so I'll have to see what day would work for me as well as Reck.
We'll have to invite Hill Country Gal as well when we have a solid date, Nestor. ;-)
Merry Christmas Nestor!
God bless you and your family. Our conversations have meant alot to me these past few months. I need more Christian friends like you.
"A righteous man is cautious in friendship.."
Your brother in Christ,
Reck
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